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Someone posted 20% of applicants got shut out this year from privates. Is this true? Seems way too high. I'd think 10%.
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05.14.08, 06:36 AM
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Why do you think that's too high?
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That'd mean over 500 families got shut out. WAY too high.
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I think was true initially. Since that time some have gotten spots (Mandell added an additional K class, IDEAL took some of the original SO kids etc.) but basically, yes, according to my PSD, who is very active in ISAAGNY, about 500 kids were SO
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ITA. That is what we were told too
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sounds right to me, since there were many at my school in that predicament
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not necessarily...that basically the number the parent's league told me.
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Did you call PL and they told you how many families got SO? How do they have this number?
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yes, and they're the parent's league--it's their job to know this stuff. they are in touch with all the pre and ongoing schools, know all the DoA's.
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OMG, 500!! That is insane. I suppose they called ERB and found out how many took ERB and they know how many seats are available in total for privates... This means, next year, people will apply to 14-16 schools, even more than this year...
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I heard 500 dcs were so from someone who knows.
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Yep. 4 people confirmed that number on this post alone. It's really crazy. What, there was a bigger baby boom in 2003?
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Yes, June 2002 babies would be included here and are part of the 9/11 baby boom
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Fwiw, 30% of my dd's preschool class got shut out. There were not enough spots for all the applicants this year.
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How many kids applied to K this year, though?
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Total? I haven't got a clue -- all I know is that out of dd's class of 20, 6 didn't find a spot at a K.
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holy crap. that is bad. Your psd must be scared for her job... then again, she probably didn't broker.
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PSD is leaving after next year.
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I feel bad for her. It's the environment. Not exactly her fault. I think there will be more heavy brokering next year but people won't complain as much. i guess this is good news for schools like Clairemont.
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To be clear, I don't think she's leaving because of the shut-outs at all. I think she's decided to retire because she's been a head of school for a long time,and is ready for retirement. That being said, it was a bad year for the school this year. But not only our school.
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it was a bad year for every school
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How did Epiphany do? Wendy brokers very heavily. I heard only 1 SO kid. If Wendy can't get you a place, there's something seriously off with that situation.
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Do you have any idea how you sound like? There are way too many kids and too few private spots in K programs. That's just the way it is. End of story.
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very true. our PSD told us that 5 years ago, schools like Trevor, Dwight, BWL, Manhattan Country were calling every year begging for applicants. Not anymore.
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Well, that was 5 years ago!! Ages ago. I'm not surprised.
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exactly. there are posters who will insist this year was no more difficult than other years...that people say this year was the worst every year...etc., and the point is that it has gotten worse, and that there are more kids than there were before, and basically the same number of spots as only a couple new schools have opened up.
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Well, I meant to say Wendy is a miracle worker.
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There have never been years when over 500 kids got shut out. NEVER.
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Hi, Wendy.
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I know of an UES school that didn't place a single kid this year
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Oh, come on. Which school?
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St. Ignatius
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Isn't that an ongoing school?
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they do have an ongoing, but from what I understand, a pre-k student is not guaranteed a spot--they have to reapply.
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Is that a nursery school?
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Do you think they wanted their kids to go to parochial/catholic schools? Maybe they didn't try that hard?
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No idea.
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Of course not, they want kids to continue to their K. Most kids that leave do so for public.
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That is the bad part about sending dc to a prek that is part of ongoing.
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BS. Know a kid going to Ethical Culture from St. Ignatius.
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OR: I heard this from a friend with a dc in their 3's class
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No. No way. Really?
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np: All Souls?
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about 15 percent at our preschool were shutout
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So, how many schools to apply next year then? 15? 18? Safe to FC schools that are not TT if you are not connected?
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FC is supposed to be out -- at least, this year you were supposed to pick a top 3. It's hard to know how to play the game well without the help of a savvy, connected psd. They are invaluable, and if you don't have one it's scary. It's hard on your dc to apply to that many schools -- I'd do 9 or maybe 10, tops.
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agree. both you and your dc will be completely exhausted by the 10th school.
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True, but people who are scared $hitless will do what it takes to avoid SO...
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But many honor FC letters and some asked for it directly. Playing top 3 is tricky, too. If Top 3 has 1 TT and 2 non-tt's, non-tt's will assume TT is your FC. Maybe safer to fill top 3 with all non-tt's.
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I agree with this -- but don't go too nuts on the TT thing. Do you really think there's a huge difference between HM or Dalton or Trinity and Riverdale or ECFS? They're all about the same, imo.
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But Riverdale and ECFS will assume HM is your FC if you choose those 3 as top 3. Doesn't matter what you think. There is TT reputation and mass psychology that goes with these decisions - even for non-TT schools.
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So you think that ECFS and Riverdale consider themselves to be lower on the 'totem pole' than Dalton and HM? I beg to differ.
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I'm not debating that point (which I can debate later). All I'm saying right now is that ECFS and Riverdale know that as far as parents are concerned (not current but applying), they're not part of 7 TTs. If a parent wrote ECFS, Riverdale and CGPS as top 3, that family will be considered to be more serious than another family who put down ECFS, HM and Dalton.
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I think you've let UB go to your head. This TT stuff is not general knowledge, nor do the schools buy into it or believe it. Defnintely our psd didn't agree to these rankings.
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Of course she didn't. What PSD will say that?? Ongoings know what families are likely to FC them (even in their hearts only). Do I agree with this? No, but I know this is reality.
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as an ECFS parent who is very involved withe the school, I can tell you that if they knew that HM on your top list, unless you live in Riverdale and are applying to the Riverdale campus of Fieldston, they wouldn't seriously consider this candidate (unless a minority) b/c they want people committed to the progressive philosophy of the school and HM is the opposite of that.
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ITA about the top 3 being tricky. It worked for us this year, but I feel it could have gone the other way. One of our top 3 was not TT, and it assumed we were not interested even though we loved the school. Whether you need a FC letter is often a combo of 1) the ongoing school, 2) your psd's relationship with the ongoing, and 3) the child.
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This is true. When my PSD asked for top 3, I only gave one school.
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did it work out for dc?
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It did. A big gamble, I know, but it paid off. it was for a TT no less. TTs say they don't care about FC, etc., but they actually do want to know if it's your favorite. I suppose I could have said 1 TT and two 3rd tier schools in top 3 and TT would have known but then they might have thought we are too odd or something.
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ITA about even TT wanting to know, especially if it isn't an obvious fit. If the dc has the right test scores, for example, but the fit isn't clear--maybe a very liberal, artsy, offbeat family wanting a SS TT for their dc, then the school wants to know that they are the family's first choice because otherwise they are going to assume the family prefers a different sort of school. The less obvious the fit, the more important it is to declare your love for the school.
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Those who think otherwise are drinking the kool aid. Schools say stuff to make themselves look good but in the end, they play these games. If you know the "rules" you have a better chance. If you continue to believe what they say about "oh we really don't care less about being anyone's FC" well... g/l to them...
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I don't think the PSDs share your top three with other schools. At least, I'm certain ours didn't. The school only knows if they are one of your top 3, not which the other 3 are.
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this is how it worked with our PSD
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Of course that is what your PSD will tell you. But ongoings will pry more and while not mentioning other top 2 schools, PSD will indicate (if she's any good) how strong your interest is compared to others.
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ITA. Dc got a couple of acceptances, and the DOA at one of them knew where else dc was accepted. She could have guessed, but I'm certain she was tipped off by psd. The psd are very savvy. They know which schools like which dc. If they don't have a fc letter from a family and they really want the kid, they are going to be thinking about where else the family might have an offer and whether the parent will pick their school over the other if both offer spots. They will take a gamble for a dc they really want.
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^^I mean the admissions directors at the ongoings are very savvy (not that many psd's aren't, too).
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np; see, our FC was really a so called non-tt, but we also had a so called TT in our top 3 and our FC didn't believe us... WLed at the non-tt and accept at TT.
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That happened to us too. WL at NBS, which was our FC (and I know DD had a great interview) and accepted at one of B/C/S (which is where DD is going).
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I don't know what one has to do for these schools to really believe us. FC letter is the only way, in this case, imo. I wonder if our PSDs wanted TT to improve their rep or whatever and screwed us.
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Wow, did that DOA tell you when you called to decline their offer? I agree that PSDs talk. When I called one DOA to decline their offer, she seemed to know the other school accepting my dc also - it was Hunter, so it wasn't another private, but..
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yes. She knew the other school plus hunter (maybe she's a good guesser). See you at hunter.
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I don't think privates are so "offended" by not being chosen over Hunter. See you!
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I don't think this is true. We send TC letters this year to two TT and one (what people on here mistakenly call 3rd-tier) and it was fine.
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Was your dc admitted to the 3rd tier? or TT?
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My friend's prek had only one placed. Crazy year. Or will it get worse next year?
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based on the fact that the Brompton and the Lucida on the UES are opening this year, I would guess it's going to be worse next year, at least on the UES
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Are they new nursery schools? I don't think NYC had a bloodbath this bad.
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no--new condo buildings built for families, filled with mostly 3 and 4 bedroom apartments
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Oh. I know there will be new nursery schools opening in the next 2 years.
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the problem isn't so much with the nursery schools, it's the ongoings. too many kids, not enough spots, and the publics are starting waitlists now, too, (article in the NY Times last week)
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DOE said no waitlist this year (for G&T). Are you talking about populare gen ed? NOt G&T, right?
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I'm talking about popular gen ed
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Phew. I do think even DOE schools will have a short waitlist from next year after this year's fiasco.
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BTW, First Choice letter is not banned. ISAAGNY is trying to pass it but it's still a proposal. I actually think FC will make a come back because of so many shut out families.
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I don't know what this means. I applied to K this fall, and my psd told me that ISAAGNY rules had changed and that schools could not ask for fc letters. I suppose someone was always free to send one anyway, but then they risked appearing extreme and pita-like for not playing by the rules.
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ISAAGNY website says that they are hoping to pass this FC letter ban. it only says they don't want schools to encourage FC letter - sounds weak to me.
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I heard there wasn't a single prek that placed their kids 100%. But I don't know if it's considered shut out if the kid got rejected by privates and got into Hunter.
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Makes sense. Lots of diversity kids with very high ERB got shut out this year.
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Not to mention sibs/legs. If your dc is a sibling, you better pray that dc gets into that school. It'll be tougher to get into another school when others know your dc is a sib at school x.
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That's what I had to deal with: my dc had a sib school, and I just had to accept that we would have to go there because it was too risky a strategy to try to get into an unconnected school. We would have had to not apply to the sib school and we couldn't take that chance.
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Works well if first dc is at your first choice school. If first dc is at a school you dislike, you're screwed. You have to go with sib school.
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Well, dc's school was excellent, but not perfect, kwim? It was a fine result, just not the best-of-all-possible-worlds.
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Then I think you are better off. I bet 90% of shut outs are non-sibs. It's safer to be a sib but it just means only one realistic chance. You are boxed in and you better hope first DC's school is one you can live with.
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Don't lose hope-Try to apply to the better/TT school and let that school know that you really want them-my dc was accepted to TT even though sib is at non-TT
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People said it'll be better next year because there are fewer kids applying to K. Not sure how they know. Census stat?
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Wishful thinking, more like.
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true... one can hope. everyone is freaking out over how many people got shut out this year. some people are pre-emptively looking into moving to burbs. might not be a bad idea since housing market is soft.
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I like living in the city -- and many dcs got spots at fine schools. You can always move later.
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Me, too, but there are some who were considering moving anyway. They thought they might try privates but seeing the SO number this year, decided to stick with burb option.
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There is a lot of money to be made in ongoing privates... this means they will jack up tuition even more since demand is there.
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I am the mom of a shut out and I think it was a very high % this last year. I'd not be shocked at all to hear 20%
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Few weeks ago, I predicted 300 SOs and got flamed for it and everyone said it was more like 100 which I knew was not true. But 500 is hard to accept, even for me, but it seems official...
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If you don't count the people who got SO and then did a last minute scramble to places like Mandell, IDEAL, Claremont, etc... I think just under 500 makes total sense.
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Actually, Claremont got all their kids from 1st round and some from wait list. The SO number does NOT include anyone who got off wait list in the 2nd round.
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no--we actually interviewed there in late Feb--they added another class
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I can tell you that there were at least 200 families at the Mandell open house, and they stopped taking applications when they reached 100 for the 20 spots they added to their new class
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I bet most of these SO families had very young, summer, birthday kids.
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Not at our preschool: Nov, Dec, Jan bdays (all boys)
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not at ours, either. actually, one of the few accepted was an Aug bd
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But that is more rare.
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not at our school. Bday seemed irrelevant. The one summer bday was an old summer bday.
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That would be us!! However, other young summer b-day kids got in from our class so we were jsut the unlucky ones!
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