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  • [-]Can someone please help me? 3 yo dd simply cannot stop hurting 16 mo ds. All day, if I turn my back for even 10 seconds, it's her pushing him down on his back, smacking him in the face, throwing things at him/his face, pinching his cheeks hard, lying on top of him, squeezing her legs around his neck ... I kid you not. We do not do this rough stuff ourselves, so I am really at a loss. Very serious and consistent time outs are not working. Is this normal? What would you do?

    27 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    05.21.08, 01:33 PM [ Flag ]
    • sounds like she needs therapy

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      05.21.08, 01:35 PM [ Flag ]
      • op: I never know if the replies on this board are serious, but assuming you are, I should add that she does not do this stuff with other kids, just her brother.

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        05.21.08, 01:36 PM [ Flag ]
        • I'm serious, she seems to have very agressive/violent feelings for her brother and that isn't safe. i'm not saying she's mentally ill or anything like that but someone needs to get to the root of it and make her see it can and will seriously hurt him eventually.

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          05.21.08, 01:38 PM [ Flag ]
          • sorry, you are so wrong.

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            05.21.08, 01:39 PM [ Flag ]
            • No i'm not, i've BTDT. What do you think is wrong?

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              05.21.08, 01:41 PM [ Flag ]
              • op: if you've BTDT, how did you get to the root of the problem?

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                05.21.08, 01:42 PM [ Flag ]
                • A child therapist. My DS was trying to put his baby sister in the oven, alway slapping her, would get in her face and scream as loud as he could (till my ears hurt so imagine hers), etc.

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                  05.21.08, 01:44 PM [ Flag ]
                  • hm. ok. the oven sounds a bit extreme, and the screaming as well. we haven't quite reached that fever pitch, maybe. so what did the therapist do?

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                    05.21.08, 01:47 PM [ Flag ]
                    • spent time with him role playing/talking mostly. It took a few months total but he's never tried to hurt her again.

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                      05.21.08, 01:48 PM [ Flag ]
                      • ^^^and my examples don't sound any more serious than your example of your DD wrapping her legs around DS's neck and squeezing, she could choke him to death, my DS couldn't turn on the oven because the knobs were removed.

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                        05.21.08, 01:49 PM [ Flag ]
          • op: I don't know how anyone would get to the root of anything with a 3 yo. She's not exactly a sophisticate when it comes to expressing herself. Though I certainly wish I could.

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            05.21.08, 01:41 PM [ Flag ]
            • your child does not needd therapy.

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              05.21.08, 01:42 PM [ Flag ]
              • op: thanks. do you have any suggestions, or any idea when we should expect a natural improvement?

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                05.21.08, 01:44 PM [ Flag ]
    • We are having the same problem. I'd love to hear what others have done. GL!

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      05.21.08, 01:35 PM [ Flag ]
    • rudolf dreikurs suggests that you give your older child opportunities to help you with the baby. lots of help. also, another suggestion is to baby the older child if that is what she wants, including spoon feeding her, putting her down to a nap when the infant goes to sleep, holding and rocking her. she will begin to hate it and wnat her indepenedecne again.

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      05.21.08, 01:38 PM [ Flag ]
    • We had a bit of this for awhile. It seemed to help to let them be alone together, actually (I would usually eavesdrop or pretend I was busy but really watch). Once my older one got to like the little one, the acting out stopped a bit. I only see aggressive behavior like this now when #1 is really wanting my attention

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      05.21.08, 01:38 PM [ Flag ]
      • op: thanks, but from what I've seen so far, it really would be like Lord of the Flies if I left them alone. that's when she acts the worst.

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        05.21.08, 01:40 PM [ Flag ]
      • totally agree. the kid knows not to hurt them. try it, and do not act anxious about it. expect her to act kindly to her sib and she will. and NO TIME OUTS!!!!!!

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        05.21.08, 01:42 PM [ Flag ]
        • np: so she can choke/beat/whatever her brother and should get no punishment?

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          05.21.08, 01:45 PM [ Flag ]
          • only discouraged children misbehave. this child is discouraged. her mother does not trust her to be kind to the baby.

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            05.21.08, 01:56 PM [ Flag ]
        • op: I don't understand this tactic. I'm saying she is extremely aggressive toward him when they're alone, and I'm being told to leave them alone more to work it out? This doesn't make sense to me. I'm not going to leave my 16 mo open to her antics.

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          05.21.08, 01:45 PM [ Flag ]
          • that is part of the problem. you do not trust her. my suggestion is to read, "children the challenge" by rudolf dreikurs.

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            05.21.08, 01:55 PM [ Flag ]
          • OP, I'm with you. This sounds like one of those theories that sounds good, but can't be put into practice, esp. if it means endangering your 16 mo.

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            05.21.08, 02:01 PM [ Flag ]
    • SPANKING

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      05.21.08, 01:46 PM [ Flag ]
      • op: oh geez, believe me I want to, but I just don't see how hitting a child teaches them not to hit others.

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        05.21.08, 01:50 PM [ Flag ]
    • positive reinforcement when she treats him well

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      05.21.08, 01:47 PM [ Flag ]
      • op: doing that, although it RARELY happens.

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        05.21.08, 01:51 PM [ Flag ]
  • [-]btdt moms: how long is this phase going to last? 2yo dd transitioned out of crib weeks ago and still puts up a huge fight each night, runs around room and eventually passes out on the floor. she was such a good sleeper since birth that this just really gets to me. How much longer will this go on?

    37 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]
    05.20.08, 05:53 PM [ Flag ]
    • why would you do this so early

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      05.20.08, 05:54 PM [ Flag ]
      • np: I had to get my DS out of his crib because he would leap out and he busted his nose once. SOmetimes you don't have a choice

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        05.20.08, 05:55 PM [ Flag ]
        • gotcha - then do what poster below said. we did this we dd at grandma's house

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          05.20.08, 05:56 PM [ Flag ]
        • op: exactly. thats what i posted below

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          05.20.08, 05:56 PM [ Flag ]
        • That's what crib tents are for!

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          05.20.08, 06:03 PM [ Flag ]
          • noooo. at that age you are caging them in even more with a tent..no no no

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            05.20.08, 06:04 PM [ Flag ]
            • Why not? My dd loved her crib tent. Nothing wrong with it.

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              05.20.08, 06:07 PM [ Flag ]
              • My ds defeated the crib tent, waste of money

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                05.20.08, 06:15 PM [ Flag ]
      • i didnt. she did. couldnt get her in crib anymore. she would hang on like a monkey...when we could she climbed out so many times.didnt want her hurting herself

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        05.20.08, 05:56 PM [ Flag ]
    • sit or lay next to her and read until she's asleep. Once she is comfortable in her new bed stop reading when she's almost asleep, then sleepy, etc, etc...

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      05.20.08, 05:54 PM [ Flag ]
      • not sure that this is the best idea or else you will be reading her to sleep every night. Never lay in bed with her. Put a chair next to the bed and sit with her if you are going to do this

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        05.20.08, 05:57 PM [ Flag ]
    • my ped said to gate the room...instead of the crib being her cage, her room is.

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      05.20.08, 05:56 PM [ Flag ]
      • what?

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        05.20.08, 05:57 PM [ Flag ]
      • np: this is exactly what Ferber says

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        05.20.08, 06:00 PM [ Flag ]
        • op: never read ferber, never had to do cio because she was always a great sleeper. so i dont know what this reference means

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          05.20.08, 06:02 PM [ Flag ]
    • a musical pull toy worked for us, you know the kind that usually hangs in the crib...hung it over the new bed, i turn off the light, tuck db in, pull the cord, and i'm out of there...sometimes she pulls it again, sometimes just falls asleep.....anyway, just say goodnight and turn off the light, get out of the room, and if your db wants to run around and pass out on the floor, so be it...put her in bed once asleep and voila

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      05.20.08, 05:57 PM [ Flag ]
      • yup, because if you make a big deal out of it, she is likely to do it longer (as long as it entertains her, or gets her attention she wants - 2yos are all about getting attention)

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        05.20.08, 05:59 PM [ Flag ]
    • Just make sure her room is safe. My ds did this for quite a while. Also, I would go back into his room and put him back in the bed. Each time saying - "stay in your bed" - he still get's up some (about 6 mos later), but hasn't slept on the floor in months and months. gl - this too shall pass. fwiw - I disagree about laying next to her till she falls asleep.

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      05.20.08, 05:58 PM [ Flag ]
      • op; i agree, if i do this, she will want to play with me....and i'll be encouraging another bad habit that i'll have to break. 6mos...gosh that is my fear...she breaks my heart screaming "mommy where are you" over again

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        05.20.08, 06:00 PM [ Flag ]
        • np: I just read this section of ferber last night. He says to gate the room and then you go to the gate w/o going into the room. If she falls asleep on the floor you move her later. Eventually she'll stop. Really, what's so wrong about sleeping on the floor?

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          05.20.08, 06:01 PM [ Flag ]
        • It's very rare, and mostly at naps. He will go to the door and knock. I open the door, put him back in bed, tell him to stay and walk out. If I didn't have a 4 mo db, I might let him knock and yell for longer. It seems to work for us, though.

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          05.20.08, 06:02 PM [ Flag ]
        • poster from above: i know it's hard to listen to, but remember that she is old enough to know what gets to you...i bet that when you open that door, she has a great big smile on her face, the kind that says "ha, here you are, i knew that'd make you come back in"

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